Country Unplugged: Jenny Tolman

0:00Welcome back to Country Unplugged, where we get to know the stories behind the songs one margarita at a time. On this episode, we're sitting down with the brilliant Jenny Tolman for a drink, a lot of laughs, and a conversation that goes way beyond the music. From the story behind her nickname, Music City Mutt, to why Burt Reynolds is to blame for her getting into music in the first place, Jenny takes us through the twists and turns of following her dreams in Nashville. We talk about juggling the madness of a music career with motherhood, her experience on the TV show The Road, and the highs, lows, and everything in between that have shaped her journey. And then there's the love story. Jenny opens up about how she met her now husband and the pretty dramatic chain of events that eventually brought them together. It's a conversation full of laughs, a few surprises, plenty of margarita-fueled honesty, and a reminder that sometimes the best stories are the ones you never could have written yourself. So grab a drink, get comfortable, and join us for Country

1:00Unplugged with Jenny Tolman. All right. We're here. It's Country Unplugged. The wonderful, beautiful, superbly talented TV star, mother, singer-songwriter, Jenny Tolman. Wow. Hello. How's it going? How are you? So good. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. I am gonna tell you the story about the first time I shot a gun. I wanna hear that. We're just gonna go straight into it. Dive right in. Let's hear it. Let's not talk about anything else. Let's talk about this. So the very first time that I shot a gun,'cause obviously I'm English, we don't have guns in the UK really. We have shotguns. Okay. But h- owning a gun in the UK is not a thing, right? Really? So, yeah. Like, it's, we have very, very strict gun laws. See, I feel like I'm already talk- really? Yeah. Talking like you. It's gonna sound like Mary Poppins at the end of it. Um, the very first time I shot a gun, the, was, I was in North Carolina with my husband on his p- parents' land, which is just outside city limits. So is your husband American? My husband's American, yes. Okay. Oh, wait. That's right. I met him the other night.

2:01Yeah. Mm-hmm. And so we were just shooting at a tree, and, you know, I- As you do ... as you do, and I shot a.22 and, and I was like,"Oh, no, I don't know if I can do this." It's like I'm like... And then shot it and was like It's a, it's a good rush. Right? Mm-hmm. And then- Yeah ... he's shooting his gun, and all of a sudden I turn and look, and there are three armed police coming over the hill. And I'm like,"This is it." Oh. "This is the, this is the thing that all my friends in England told me about. Like, 'Don't go to America- "Don't tell them anything" ... you're going to get arrested or shot.'" And I'm like,"Th- and it's gonna be from the police right now." Oh my gosh. And like, they're, like, yelling,"Put your guns down. Put your hands in the air." And I'm like,"Oh my God." What's happening? "What's happening?" And so, and, like, a neighbor had called the police because they thought we were inside city limits, and you're not allowed to shoot a gun- No ... inside city limits and stuff like that. So it was all fine, but literally... But the worst thing was was that they were so far away, because it's quite a long way to get to where we were staying. And all of their tactical gear's quite heavy, so-... it took them quite a while. And I'm sort of standing there going,"My arm's getting tired.""Can I put my arms down yet?" But anyway, so that's the first time I shot a

3:02gun. Oh my gosh. Anyway. That's- Let's talk about you ... that's a great... I mean, that's a great intro to be a country music host. There you go. So welcome to Country Unplugged. Jenny Tolman, we are gonna talk about you, and, and music, and your life, and all- Yeah ... the, all that jazz, basically. All of that country, as we're gonna change the phrase. Ooh. Um, I want to know about, tell us about you growing up, because you- Yeah ... did have a very musical household. Mm-hmm. And so it's really no surprise that you ended up doing what you're doing, right? Yeah. Yeah, so I was born and raised here in Nashville, so grew up in Music City. My dad was a singer. Um, he moved to town from, well, from all over. He's originally from Boston, and my mom's from California, so I call myself the Music City Mutt, 'cause I'm-... I really, like, have no home. And everybody moves to my home. Right. So, uh, my dad was a singer back in the'80s, and he moved down to Florida and was a singer at Disney World for a while, um, and sang at Burt Reynolds' Dinner Theatre. And-

4:03I love this. Yeah. And he actually became, like, running buddies with Burt Reynolds and Dom DeLuise and Jim Nabors and, like, he has crazy stories. Like, running buddies, like they would go- Yeah, like, hang out. Like,"Hey, do you wanna go for a 5K today?" kinda thing? I mean, obviously not K because that's- No, not, like, not, like, physically running. Gotcha. Sorry. Like, I mean, maybe they did. I can ask. This is gonna be so fun, guys. I thought- It's gonna be great ... when you said, like, did you say running buddies? Yeah, just, like, running around, doing stuff. Like- Got it. Sorry. I thought you meant, like, they were competing in, like, half marathons. They were doing the Disney marathon together with the mini ears, you know? Oh my God. Like... This is really fun. Right? I thought... Sorry. I, yes. No, you're, you're fine. Just friends. They were just hanging out. Yeah. Okay. Just hanging out. But that's still pretty cool. He would, like, help Jim Nabors learn his lines for whatever movie that they were working on and... So it was crazy. He's got the best stories. But, um, Burt ended up putting my dad and three other guys who were singers at his dinner theater together into a group called The Indian River Boys.

5:04Okay. And they were kinda like The Oak Ridge Boys, and so he moved them out to LA for a while, and then moved them out to Nashville. And, uh, they did... So I always say it's Burt Reynolds' fault that I'm a country singer-...'cause he moved my dad here. Does he know? He, he, he did know before he... D- I feel like he would have taken credit for that."That's because of me." You know, probably. You know? Probably. I actually never got to meet him. My sister got to meet him. Um, but yeah, I just, I still put the blame on him. I love that. But he... So my dad did a lot of cool stuff in town. He sang on Garth's No Fences album with his group, and, like, did a bunch of fun stuff, but singing groups are very difficult to, to stay in for a long time. Mm-hmm. And so when my, uh, older sister was born, he decided to switch to the business side. So by the time I came around, he hadn't been, like, performing for a while. Right. So I didn't grow up around a performing artist singer dad, but he sang all throughout the house. Right. And he worked in the music industry and worked with, like, booking people for

6:05different corporate events and stuff like that. So I, I kind of saw- From behind the scenes how s- parts of the music industry worked, and- Yeah ... um, so I'm very grateful for that. It's kind of like a blessing and a curse in a way. Uh,'cause music to me was never, like, an odd job. Right. It wasn't something that was unusual or, like, this crazy dream that you had to chase and go after. And I always say I think God knew that I was, like, a big scaredy-cat and would not leave my family and hometown- Yeah ... to chase my dreams, so He was like,"We're gonna plop this one right here." And say,"Of course not." "She's gonna have enough anxiety here-""... so we're good." Um, but- It's interesting that you say it wasn't a crazy job for you to do. Mm-hmm. Because a lot of people are like... have said like,"Oh, I didn't real- I didn't even realize that that was a job." You know, like- Yeah ... when you speak to songwriters, they're like,"I didn't know you could get, get paid for that." Yeah. And then all of a sudden they realize. But for you it was just like- I didn't- ... it's a no-brainer, right? ... realize people didn't do that. They're like,"What do you mean you weren't-" You know, I'm like- "... not in the music industry?" ..."What do you mean your dad's a doctor? That's weird."

7:08You're a dentist? Oh, how strange. Yeah. That must be boring. Right? But no, I mean, it was, it was just this, like, nice delusion that I got to grow up into. Um, I've just sang since before I can even remember, and I started playing piano by ear when I was three. I would come home from church and pick out the melodies that we had just sang. And, um, I started writing stories- Yeah ... in, like, middle school. Um, and just loved creating characters and loved, like, funny stories too. I don't know why. I've always just been drawn to like... Actually, you know what? I say I don't know why, but now I'm like,"Well, hold on a second. My dad managed a comedian," he still manages him to this day,"that would perform on the Opry and, and do a bunch of fun stuff." And, and he actually saw my first step, so I actually grew up with a comedian- Okay ... as, like, my uncle basically, so maybe that's why. I'm discovering stuff. This is, like, a therapy session as I'm talking. You're welcome. I'll send you the bill at the end. Yeah. But, um. But I, I started writing stories, and then when I was 16 I got a guitar for my

8:11birthday, and it was kind of like this light bulb moment of like,"Oh, duh, I can put all of this together and start writing songs, and this is what I'm gonna do." And I've just never looked back. Right. Mm-hmm. So it's- I did read that you wanted to write children's books, though. I did, yeah, when I was in- Which tells- ... middle school. Yeah ... kind of helps with the storytelling thing, right? Yeah. And it, and I hadn't even... At that point I hadn't discovered Shel Silverstein. Like, today Shel Silverstein is my favorite writer of all time. And it's so funny because he is super well known for his children's books, but he was also a Playboy cartoonist as well as a country music songwriter. So he had, like, all these different facets of him. I'm sorry, wait, what is a Playboy cartoonist? I want to make sure I get this- Like, drew cartoons- Oh, okay ... for Playboy. Oh, okay. That just what it says on the tin. Like, exactly what it sounds. Yep. Yep. I believe he- Like, nude cartoons? ... lived in the Playboy Mansion for a while too. Like, I don't... Okay. He had an interesting life. Okay. But, um, he wrote A Boy Named Sue, which is one of the most famous-

9:12Yeah ... Johnny Cash songs, and wildest, craziest, little wacky songs. Um, and so anyways, all that to say, I thought I might wanna be a children's author. It had nothing to do with Playboy. Can't draw to save my life. Um, but it really was, like, when I got the guitar that I was like,"Oh, wait, I can put all of this together." Yeah. And, and it's just kind of always been this thing. And, and when I told my dad, um, what, what my plans were, I was like,"Okay, so I'm, so I'm gonna be a country artist. I think that's what I'm gonna do." Did you have this moment where you sat them down and went- Yeah ..."By the way-" Literally- "... I'm not going to be a dentist" ... at the kitchen island I sat them down and I was like,"Okay, so-" Just so you know ..."I need everyone to know that I am the next Miranda Lambert, and we all need to believe or it's not gonna happen." And honestly- How old were you when you did this? I was probably, like, 16. Love it. And, um, and my dad, he looked at me and he goes,"Are you sure?" Oh, really? And I was like,"Yes." And my mom was like,"Okay. Well, if this is, if this is what

10:17you wanna do, you're not gonna have a plan B." And I loved that. Like, I love that I had that level of belief and support- Yeah ... in this crazy dream that actually is a crazy dream that I didn't realize was a crazy dream. Um, to not feel like,"Oh, my gosh, you're throwing your life away. What are you doing?" Like,"No, you need-" Yeah ..."to go to college. You have to get a degree." Like, all that stuff. I, um, was very, very blessed to have parents who... You know, obviously my dad knows what it takes- Yeah ... and knows how heartbreaking it can be, too, all of the above. And now that I'm a parent I get it. Right? I get the, like,"Are you sure?" question. That does surprise me, because you would think that most parents, especially if they've been in the industry- Mm-hmm ... would be like," Hang on a minute." Yeah. "It's tough and maybe you should get a degree in neuroscience just in case," you know- Right ... or something. But the fact that your par- both your parents are like, "Absolutely-" Mm-hmm ..."and this is, this is it." No looking back. Yeah.

11:18Like,"We're going for it." Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah, it is. It's, I mean, it's, it's wild, but I think that when you have... Like, my dad, like I said, he knows what that emotion, what that feeling, what that, like, drive and dream that's been put on your heart feels like. Yeah. And you can't not listen to it. You can't not follow it. Yeah. If you do you're gonna be miserable. Do, do you have that pull of like,"I need to write music, I need to perform"? Oh, yeah. "I-" I mean, I don't know what else I would do. Like, sometimes I'll call my mom, like, after a really hard day and be like,"Oh, my gosh," like,"what is it like to know that you're gonna get paid?" Like, go to your job, sit at a desk, do your work, and know that you're gonna get paid at the end of it? What was her answer? And she's like she- I'd quite like to know that as well, actually. She, she- If that's okay ... she goes,"Jenny, you would hate it." So- That's fair enough. Yeah. So it's, it's like as much as- This job is hard and relentless- Mm-hmm ... and soul-shattering at times. It's so soul-fulfilling. You know, the moments of

12:22the fulfillment are so much higher than anything else- Yeah ... that's out there, for me. Yeah. You know, we all have our things that are soul-fulfilling, but to me, you know, writing a song and getting to perform it in front of real-life people and see how they react and hear their stories that connect with whatever version of whatever song it is, whether they're laughing or crying or- Mm-hmm ... dancing or whatever it is, that is like, that's what my soul- Yeah ... loves, and that's what I long for. I mean, I think everyone who's an artist or a songwriter got into this to heal something within themselves,'cause I know that's really what got me writing hardcore. I was in a really terribly abusive relationship in high school- Mm ... and that's like, writing was what kinda drug me out of this really dark hole of, like, self-pity and just, like,"Oh, this, like, life is so bad." Um, but it was healing, you know? Yeah. I needed that in that moment- Yeah ... just to wallow in it. And then I started writing funny songs, and I started playing those out, and I saw how that was so healing to not only myself, but other

13:26people. Yeah. And so it's like this beautiful feedback loop that we get to, like, thrive off of, creation and expression and experience all together, and yeah. I don't know. I just got, I just got weird there for a second. No, you didn't. It was great. You can see the passion. You can see why- Yeah ... you have to do... You, it is- Mm-hmm ... it's in you, and that you obviously, you just have this drive to create. Yeah. Now that, jumping ahead,'cause now that you are a mother- Mm-hmm ... what, how would you feel if your son turned around to you in, you know- Yeah ... 10, 15 years' time and was like,"I'm gonna..." Well, maybe not 10 years' time. 'Cause he'll be 13, and that's a bit weird. Oh, maybe. But, um, but, like, how would- Yeah ... you feel if he was like,"Oh, hey, I wanna go into the music business"? Would you be okay with that? I think I would probably have the similar response that my dad had of, like,"Okay, are you sure?" Like- Yeah ..."Let's talk about this," and then like,"All right. If this is..." I mean, and I honestly, my husband and I, Dave, were already kind of having those conversations

14:27because he's a drummer already. Right. He has a drum set in his bedroom. Okay. When he was two years old-... he asked Santa Claus for a drum set. I'm not even joking. We took him in. Santa's sitting there. He's like,"Ho, ho, ho," doing his whole Christmas thing. Bear looks at him. He goes,"Hi. Drums?" He asked by himself? Yes. You're like,"Oh, God. He could ask for a book." And Dave and I looked at each other. We were like... He asked for the noisiest thing ever. We're like,"Okay. Well, I guess we're, I guess we're getting drums for Christmas." But so he got a drum set for Christmas- Okay ... that year. And he's got a whole little hi-hat groove that he does. Like, he's good. He's good. It's crazy. All we may be- I mean, when I was pregnant, he would kick my guitar while I was performing. Oh, he's rhythm. When the base would come in, and he would start kicking. It was like he knew. He's got the beat. He was in the rhythm section with the base in the womb. It was crazy. And, like, ever since he could hold stuff, he would hold chopsticks, straws, whatever it may be, and just start drumming along, and drumming, like, on his little water cup at a restaurant if there was music playing. I mean, people would come up to us at a

15:29restaurant and be like,"Uh, how old is he?" This is like child prodigy at this point. It's, it's wild. Like, I know I'm his mom, but I'm not kidding. Like, I've, I've posted some videos, too. It's crazy. Um- This is cool. We actually- You can have an extra member of the band at some point ... like, top-secret info, like, breaking it here. Sorry, Elise. Um-... we put... So Dave, my husband, is a producer, and he mic'd up his drum set in his bedroom and got him to do his hi-hat groove, and so we recorded that. Dave made a whole loop out of it, and we- Is he putting out music? ... wrote a song to that, and it's gonna be on this project that I'm working on, so. You- Bear Brainard's debut as a drummer is coming. On a song that you're singing on. So, I mean, I guess you ask, like, how would I react? I'm already putting him on a recording. Yeah, how would I react if he asked me? Too late. He's already in the industry. Um- He's already. This is fantastic. So, and his agent is- We're starting his, uh, college fund, or maybe not college fund. He's available for hire. Yeah. Um, well, this is great, you know? Mm-hmm. You can't send kids down the mine anymore to work, so we're just gonna put them in

16:31the band instead and get some money out of them that way. Hey- You know- ... why not, right? I told my drummer, I'm like,"You got... Your, your days are numbered. You gotta keep your eye out." Oh, he is looking over his shoulder. The poor drummer is going,"They are getting younger and younger in Nashville these days.""Taking over our jobs," basically. Um, this is awesome. I think this is great. Oh, this is so cute. He's gonna be on a song that you're putting out. Yeah. I love that. Yeah, it's good. It's really sweet. Um, can we talk about you and your husband for a second? Yeah. Because I did not know this- Mm-hmm ... about how you guys got together. Can you tell us?'Cause you were working together before- Yeah ... and then this big thing happened, and then you sort of ended up together. This big thing happened. I mean, I- I think I know the big thing that you're talking about. You know, I don't wanna... It's not my story to tell. It's yours. Yeah. So tell us, sort of te- explain to us the journey that you guys went on, um, as a, as a couple. Yeah. So we, um, we met at The Doghouse. RIP. Right. Used to be on Demembrian. And, um, I was playing around. I wasn't even old enough to

17:32be in The Doghouse, but I was allowed to be there for, to play a song. Mm-hmm. And Dave's old studio was above Off Broadway Shoes there, right at the roundabout. Mm-hmm. And so he was just down having a nightcap with another artist that he had just recorded with and, um, heard me singing and came up, and he was like,"Hey, I'm a huge fan of your voice. I'd love to get together and, like, see how I can help you," and, and, like, nothing romantic at all from either one of us. Yeah. It was purely just, like, he was like,"Oh, I love what you're doing." And, um, and I was kinda like,"Oh, yeah. Okay, cool. Thanks." And he's like,"Oh, I'm, like, I'm a producer in town, and, like, I'd love to see what I can..." And I'm like- Jenny's like this."Yeah, I've had that one before." I'm like,"Yeah, I bet you have a studio in your mom's basement." Did he? No, he had a naturals today- No ... you just said. No, he had like a real life one. Like a real one. And he had actually just come back from- Okay ... the Grammys, so I was just m- I was just an idiot. Um- You're like,"Oh, this is legit." Yeah. He's just been to the Grammys. And he he was l- he was so funny because he was like,"Oh, like I ha- I like don't, I

18:33don't like to lead with this foot, but are you familiar with Brandy Clark- Mm-hmm ... or Jerry Neeman, Jamie Johnson?" Like, um, and I was like,"Oh my gosh, I love Brandy Clark." Like the 12 Stories album is my favorite album- Yeah ... of all time. And he's like,"Oh, well I produced that." And my brain was like, oh my gosh. I was like,"Okay, you c- here's my card." Yeah. I guess I'm lucky. So no, we ended up getting together or like the, the next week, and it's so funny because even on the ride home, like my parents were there that night, and on the ride home my mom was like googling him and she's like,"I feel like this is the person we've been waiting for." And so she like had this- Talk about foreshadowing ... just like, yeah. Um, but so we all got together for coffee and at Fido, which again, RIP. My town is falling apart. Um- All these places in Nashville that are no longer here anymore. Yeah, right. But they will last forever with us. Mm-hmm. And we just like really hit it off just like moral compasses lined up and belief systems- Mm-hmm ... and just everything. It felt really like aligned just as people. And we wrote

19:36together and we both say the first song that we wrote together was the best song we've ever written, like to this day. And I haven't released it. What was the s- oh, you haven't released it? No, I'm saving it. I'm like, there's gonna be a special moment for it. I don't know when- Yeah ... or how, but- Okay ... I just got it in my back pocket. Um, and so there was, it was obvious that there was creative chemistry there. Mm-hmm. Um, and so we wrote together for about a year almost before I started to like kind of notice things and I was like,"Wait, no." I would just like shove it down, like my feelings. Um,'cause he was like absolutely not giving me any type of vibe whatsoever. I was just like,"Hmm, I wonder if he thinks I'm pretty." Um- And he's just being like,"I'm just being polite and we're working together.""I'm professional." Yeah. But, um, yeah, long story short, which this is already a long story, sorry. No, I love it. He ended up getting attacked on the streets- I don't love his bits, but yeah ... of Dumebrian. Um- This is terrible ... and I mean, had his, had his jaw shattered, mouth wired shut, reconstructive

20:40surgery, like every- it was, it was really, really terrible. Um, he was out with a friend and it was her birthday, and they were crossing the crosswalk and these people kind of like, as I, as I've heard the story, like bumped into his friend- Mm-hmm ... on the crosswalk, like driving, and she was like kind of brushing it. She was like,"Oh, that was like awkward. Like I'm gonna keep going, whatever." And they get out of the car and are just like full of rage like they were on something. And Dave's like trying to separate- Yeah ... this woman and the friend, and he's like,"Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa." And the husband comes around, like beats the S-H-I-T out of Dave for, for trying to touch his wife. Like it was this whole thing, just like terrible. This is crazy. Yeah. Um, laid him in the street unconscious. Like it was, it was really, really awful. Um, it was, I mean, it was like national news. It was crazy. Yeah. It was on Good Morning America. It was, it was awful. Um- It's t- it's bad because I don't think, I don't feel like Nashville is like that, so to hear a story like that-

21:41Yeah ... I'm like, oh. Like you have to be- I know ... Nashville's a big city, so you do have to be careful, you know- Yeah ... like going out late at night in dark alleys- Mm-hmm ... and all that jazz. Like you would in any city. Right, but you're just like crossing a crosswalk and these people just randomly started attacking you. Right? You're like, wha- for no reason. That's awful. 'Cause I mean, you're in a, they're in a car and they're just walking to the, they were walking from the apartments to Tin Roof right across the street. So it w- it was just a very bizarre- Yeah ... wild I, what, what they believe to be like a drug-induced- Mm-hmm ... incident. Um, and Dave, if you know Dave, he's like the smiliest person. He's former Air Force, and in the Air Force they called him Airman Smiley-...'cause he just like smiles at everything. And um, and so he like doesn't like to talk about it a lot, like makes a bit like- Yeah ... he's like,"I'm good, I'm good." Um, but I got an email from him like the next morning,'cause we were actually supposed to do a writer's trip together with another friend of ours, and he's like,"I can't go to Texas. I can't speak right now. Deborah

22:42will call you." And I was just like,"What?" Literally can't speak because my mouth- Yeah ... is wired shut. I didn't know that. He didn't explain that, though, but I was like,"What do you mean you can't talk?" Like, I felt like I was getting broken up with even though we weren't together. I was like,"What do you mean you can't speak to me?" Like,"What do you mean you can't talk?" Oh. So anyways, Deborah calls me and tells me what happened, and like instantly in that moment when she told me,'cause he's in the emergency, he's in the- Mm-hmm ... like getting his face reconstructed currently. Um, it was like my soul like snapped to him. Yeah. Like I knew that that was my person, and like you don't F with my person. And it was, I don't, like I, there's n- I've never had an experience like that where I was just like that's, that's my person, and I knew, like I just wanted to be with him. I wanted to hold him and comfort him and like make sure he was okay. Um, and- This was a real revelation then, right? Yeah. It's like the clouds parted and all of a sudden you're like... Yeah.'Cause like for, I mean, like I said, I had like these little things that were just kinda like, oh, like I wonder-

23:42Yeah ... if he thinks I'm pretty. But it's just like stupid little like girly things where you're like, meh. But this is like, oh, no, like that's n- that's my husband. Um, and so anyways, I went to the hospital to see him, and I wrote him this song and I sent it to him. Um, and it was, it was just like the, we had this really beautiful moment in the hospital, um, where nothing romantic happened at all. It was just us like, it was just being there together like with each- Yeah ... I don't even know how to explain it,'cause he wasn't even like fully there- Mm-hmm ... mentally at that point. Um- But like I met his brother for the first time. His brother had flown in and... So it was just, I don't know. I don't know. It was, it was a crazy time. So like a month or two goes by,'cause his jaw was wired shut for six weeks, and, um, yeah. Oh my gosh. It was crazy. We go to this event together, um, that my dad was putting on, and my sister had come into town for it, and my sister met him, and she was like, "Jenny, why are you not dating Dave?" And I was like,"Oh my gosh," like,"What are

24:47you talking about? That's disgusting." You're like,"No, that's really-" 'Cause he's also like- "Never crossed my mind." We have a 20-year age difference is, is the other thing of like why- Yeah ... this was always, like, way off limits to me in my mind. Um, and he's my producer. Like, all these things were like, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah. Not a good idea. Um, but my sister said that, and I was like,"Okay. I think I might actually, like, have feelings for him, but you can't tell Mom." And she's like,"Oh my gosh, no, Mom talks about you guys to me all the time." And I was like,"Are you kidding me? What?" She's like,"Yeah, her friends have dreams about you guys." I'm like,"Excuse me?" Well, your mom was the one that said the first time you guys met anyway. Yeah. So she already knew. Who knew Mom was so intuitive? But you'd be surprised. There you go. Um, yeah. So once I knew that it was, like, okay on my end- Yeah ... at least my mom's sister point of view. My poor dad was completely left in the dark still. We'll deal with that later. But, but once I knew that it was okay for me to kinda start poking him, I, I started

25:50poking away and nudging, just kinda like... So anyways, one night after we had recorded a bunch, um, this was in January, and it was snowing, and it had just started to snow, and snow has become a very important theme in our love story. Mm-hmm. Um, and so we're having dinner, and he's like,"Well, I don't really want the weekend to be over. Like, is there anything else you wanna do?" And like, again, we've still- Sorry ... like no romantic... "Is there anything else you wanna do?""Well..." Still, like, zero romantic things have happened or been expressed. Like, we're still very awkwardly platonic. And I was like,"Well, I'm 20 years old, can't go to a bar. Since it's so cold outside, you wanna, like, go back to your apartment and drink some tea?" That's what you suggested? Yeah, that's what I said. Aw. The British person inside of me just went,"Well done.""No wonder he said yes." And so I, he's like,"Um, okay. Okay." And so he's driving,

26:57and he just look, he's, like, looking straight ahead, and he's like,"I don't know how this happened, and please know this was never my intentions with you, but I think I'm in love with you." And just, like, said it outright. Before anything had ever happened. Before anything ever, yeah. This is like a Hallmark movie. It is. It is. I love it. And I, like, grab the side of the car. I'm like,"I think I'm in love with you, too." Was there ever a moment when you, just before that, when you thought,"I'm gonna tell him that I really like him," but y- were you worried that it might not be- Mm ... reciprocated? Well, there was kind of a moment where... And I didn't tell him I liked him, but I did something where I thought I might have made him hate me and made him super uncomfortable. So another fun little side, side path here. I did pole dancing for a long time. I'm sorry, we're just going to have to pause on this one for a second because we do have margaritas in teacups here. And I'm going to need a sip of this whilst you

27:59explain what? So I wasn't a stripper. I did pole dancing. Big difference. Big difference. I mean- Did you get paid- I didn't get paid for it ... to do the pole dancing? No. Honestly, though, like, I did all the work, so I should, I should have gotten compensated. So you weren't doing pole dancing in a cl- it was just like a, a- It was, like, classes. Okay. And then I had a pole. Like Keep Fit. Yeah. Um, so it was- Keep, Keep Fit but different. Yeah. But, like, cute keep, cute Keep Fit. I mean, yeah. We ha- I mean, we had guys that would come to class. They were training for that show American Ninja Warrior. Oh, yeah. Like, it's actually a really tough workout. Um, but it's super fun, too. And, um, so anyways, that year for Christmas, I got pole dancing lessons for all of the girls in my family. Okay. So it was my mom, my sister, my aunt, and my cousin. We all went pole dancing in Boston. And I sent a picture of me on the pole just, like, doing a, like, funny face like, to Dave. I was, I was, like, nervous to. I took the picture, and then my

29:00sister and my now brother-in-law, they were like,"Send it. Send it." And I was like, "I can't do it." I'm, like, screaming at the phone. Like,"I can't do it. I can't..." They're like,"Press the button." So press the button, throw my phone across the room, scream. He doesn't respond for like two hours, and I'm like,"He hates me. I've made him so uncomfortable." He's like,"What is this little girl sending me this picture of her on a pole doing?" The poor guy is sitting at home going,"I really want to say hot, but that's inappropriate." Um- Do you wanna know what this man responded? Uh-huh. One word."Righteous." I'm so confused. Righteous. No wonder you were confused. Yeah. Like a Billy on Ted- So I was like,"He hates me." Is this like a Billy on Ted righteous moment? Like,"Oh, spot on, righteous, dude." Or is this a, I don't know. How do you respond to that? I don't know. So that, that's when I was like,"Okay, he hates me." So I was not gonna say anything else. Fair enough.

30:01I hadn't done anything. I was like- Gosh, the relief then- I was like,"I'm done." ... when he said anything in the ca- when he said- Even- ... to the car to you must have been... Even my mo- or no, my sister and my brother-in-law, they were like... Yeah. "Yeah, not sure, not sure what he thinks about this, actually." Um, but yeah, turns out he's in love with me. Oh, well, thank- So- And, and- It all worked out. Gosh, this story could have ended up so differently. It, it could, it could have. But yeah, so, uh, we went to the apartment, drank some tea, and I never left And now we've been married for four years. And you have a baby as well. And we have a little three-year-old boy. Yeah. This is so... I mean, I love it. Yeah. That's such a great story. It really is. It's, it's crazy. Sorry, it was, like, five hours long. No, I love it. It's like a Hallmark movie, but now you threw in the pole dancing, so it might actually not-... be a Hallmark movie after all, and we might have to get, like- Gotta add that P in front of the G now. Exactly. So, um, yes. Um, one of the questions that I did wanna ask you, this is great. I did- I need to drink my margarita. Just have a, have a sip of margarita. Um, I saw this thing recently where somebody was asking women what questions we should stop asking women.

31:04Mm-hmm. Like, when in interviews and stuff like that. And so- and one of the ladies said, "Oh, I wish that people would say, stop saying,'How do you juggle moth- motherhood and your career?'" kind of thing. Why? So this is interesting. Sorry. Because... Well, no. But honestly, because I actually thought- It's a good question ... well, I ask men, male artists- Mm-hmm ... the same question. Because I say, like,"Oh, you've got a family. You've got kids. How do you do it?" You know? Mm-hmm. So, like, I don't see what, why you shouldn't ask people that. No. And I think it's a valid question. So my question- Yeah ... is gonna be, like, how do you juggle it now that you're... That... Because you, you know, you've got- Mm-hmm ... this career. It's, you know, going well. You're kind of excited. You're putting music out. You're doing your thing, and then all of a sudden you're pregnant. Yeah. And you're like,"Oh, God." Mm-hmm. "Now my whole entire life is going to change completely." Yeah. Like, is that s- was that scary? Were you like,"Oh, no. This means that-" Oh, for sure ..."I can't do this," or- Mm-hmm. By the sounds of things, you guys are a tight unit- Mm-hmm ... you know, family unit anyway. So it's like,"Oh, we're just gonna-" Yeah. "We're just gonna put him on the drum kit and-" Right. "... put him out to work as soon as he can," so fantastic. Put him to work. Um, yeah, no, I mean, honestly, I love the question'cause I'm like,

32:08"I'm a woman." Yeah. I'm, I, I am a- and I'm a mom. Like, I made a human, and it's really, really cool. It's the coolest thing I've ever done. Yeah. It's way cooler than any music I'm ever gonna make. Um, and I, so I expect different questions like that, you know? Yeah. I expect to be asked different questions than a man, so it doesn't bother me. Yeah. But I- Do you find it difficult sometimes? Do you find it- Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I mean, the, the big thing for me is that I don't do it. Like, I, I don't do it. It's a village, you know? The... It's so cheesy to say, but it's a cliche for a reason. Yeah. It really does take a village. Um, like, my mom's watching Bear right now, you know? And my parents typically come on the road with us'cause my husband plays in my band. My mom will watch Bear- Yeah ... while we're on the road, and my dad works the merch table, you know? So I-... I have an incredible family, and I'm very, very grateful for that. I know how blessed I am'cause I know that that's a rarity- Yeah ... in this industry especially. Um, but, I mean, that's, that's the truth of it is that I don't do it, you know? It's, it's, it's me, but with five or six-

33:12Everything ... other pairs of hands helping every single day, you know? Yeah. Um, and so I've... It gets really hard at times. Yeah. Um, my brain can't function properly a lot of the time. Uh, I have to try to compartmentalize things as best as I can, but- Yeah ... you know, there's two things that I always wanted, that I always prayed that God would give me, and that is to be a singer and to be a mom. And I look at my life, and I'm like,"How can I be anything but grateful?" Yeah. Because I am both of those things, you know? And, um, even though, like, oh, I still have all these goals that I wanna- Mm-hmm ... reach, and I'm going to keep going and reaching for them, um, I'm still doing it, you know? Yeah. It's like... So I have these funny moments sometimes where I'll, like, look at my team, and I'm like,"Wait, guys, I'm a real singer." Like, I just have this moment where I'm like,"Wait, we're really doing this." Like, this is so cool. As if we hadn't told you. Yeah. You're doing quite well.

34:12Yeah. Well, thank you. But, um, but yeah. I mean, I just, I really try to lean into those hard moments with gratitude. It's hard to do sometimes. Yeah. But, I mean, I think that that's the key to everything in this life- Yeah ... is just being so thankful for...'Cause, I mean, these are the things I asked for. Right. These are the things I prayed for. Um, and so yeah, they're gonna be hard. They're, they're the two- they're also, like, two of the hardest jobs that you can possibly do. Back to the dentist thing, aren't we? Simultaneously. It would be easier if you were a dentist at the end of the day. Yeah, I know. But, yeah. Maybe that desk job isn't... Yeah. But, um, but yeah. I think it's important though to hear that. I think for other women listening and other artists listening- Yeah ... and female artists as well, it's important to hear that you can do it all. Yes. But you can't do it all by yourself. Correct. Because- Correct ... I don't think anybody can do it all by themselves- No ... at all. Like, it's- No ... it's just not a thing. You need your people around you. Yeah. You need your village and stuff like that. But I don't think that people should miss out on doing the things that they want to do because they're doing something else that they want to do. Mm-hmm. So you shouldn't miss out on being a singer- Exactly ... just because you want to be a mom as well, you know?

35:14Exactly. I think that you can do both. Well, I've had so many artists who have now become moms- Mm-hmm ... talk to me before they became a mom because they saw me having Bear, and they're like,"Okay, how are you doing this?" Yeah. "I'm scared." Like- Did it go your ways? ..."Did everybody turn their backs on you?" Yeah. And I'm not gonna lie. Like, there's some people in the industry who are going to be like,"Eh, okay, well, she's done." Yeah. And that's just the way that is. There's people like that in every facet of the world, no matter what. You just have to find the people that believe in you and that are gonna rally around you. Mm-hmm. You know? I have an amazing team who totally believes that we can do both. I love that. Yeah. Talk to us about The Road. Oh my gosh. We've, we've talked about how you are on the road with the family- Yeah ... and everything. Tell us about the TV show. Yes. So tell us first of all how you got... Actually, tell, explain what the show is for those that haven't seen it- Yeah ... or heard of it. So The Road was 12 of us artists- Mm-hmm ... getting to go out on the road, showing what life is like on the road, opening for Keith Urban every night. And Blake Shelton and Taylor Sheridan, the creator of

36:16Yellowstone- Yeah ... were our executive producers, so they were there as well. Um, Gretchen Wilson was our tour manager. It was wild. It was so crazy. I- Like- Just those names alone- Yeah ... as an artist, I mean, my... It, the question was never written down of, um,"So, and why did you agree to say yes to this?" You know? Because really, like, that is- Yeah ... awesome, right? Well, and we got to play our original music. Oh. And that was really, like, the biggest selling point for me'cause I've always kind of-... shied away from singing competition shows. Mm-hmm. Um,'cause I'm not, I don't actually sing a lot of covers. Like, even when I do shows, I, I may, I maybe throw two in at the most. Yeah. I love original music. And, um, and you know, my, my voice is not this crazy Carrie Underwood belting- Mm-hmm ... style vocalist, and so I'm not what would, like, make people go like on, on The Voice or on American Idol. Um, and I'm much more of a storyteller and, and I like what I do, my style. And so I've always just been like,"Uh, I don't know. It's not

37:19really my thing." Um, but when they were like,"You're gonna get to..." They reached out and they were like,"We would love for you to do your original music on this, and it's about performing." Mm-hmm. And they were also very intentional with casting artists who have been at this for a long time. Right. Um, who weren't just being put on a stage for the first time. Yeah. And I think that's why, like, we all bonded so quickly and we got along so well, because we're all kind of at the same playing field level. Mm-hmm. Um, it was just so much fun. Like, I call it Country Music Summer Camp. Oh, that's so fun. 'Cause it was just so much fun. Like, that first week I was kind of distraught, leaving my family and leaving Bear for the first time. He had just turned two. And, uh, but after that- Also, you couldn't take them on the road on the road. No. No. Oh, no. 'Cause at first I was like,"Well, guys, I take my baby on the road, so, like, if you wanna show what life is like on the road, like, that's the..." Yeah. And they were like,"No, we can't. We can't do that." They were like,"No, thank you. Our insurance doesn't cover that." It's like, yeah, exactly. I was like,"Okay." So yeah, I left him for a whole month- Oh, no ... to film. And that first week was like I think I lost five pounds-

38:24Oh ...'cause I couldn't eat. I was just so distraught. After the first week, I was like,"This is great. Nobody needs me. I'm free." I can sleep like a starfish in the bed. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Um, yeah, but it was, it was just so much fun. Oh. Okay. So back to your question. I will answer your question now, how I got on the show. So- So- I got- ... what's the audition process? Yes. I got reached out to by casting, and they were like,"Hey, we found, like, we love what you've got online, and we'd love to talk to you about this new show." And- Yeah ... and honestly, I was kinda like,"Eh, I don't know." Um, but I started- 'Cause it's a bit like, oh, it's reality TV, you know? Yeah. Like- Yeah, but I started learning more about it, and when I found out, like, who was involved and that we would get to do our original music, I was like,"Okay, this is- Yeah ... this is piquing my interest." And, um, we did a Zoom interview, and that went well, and, um, that turned into, like, a couple other Zoom interviews and sending them different clips of me singing X, Y, and Z. And then they ended up flying out a

39:26bunch of us to LA for callbacks. Mm-hmm. And, um, that was the most terrifying thing I've ever done in my life. It was, like, this cold, bright, fluorescent, sterile white room- Mm-hmm ... with no vibe, no reverb. Like, it's so dry, and just you and your guitar, 30 CBS executives-... and Blake Shelton. And they're like,"Now perform." Uh-huh. "Like a little monkey, please. Come on." And so I'm like, there with my guitar, I'm like... Jenny's there going like,"This, this could be the end of my career." Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But I guess they liked it- They loved it ...'cause I,'cause I made the show. They absolutely loved it. Yeah. That was amazing. So it was really fast. Like, it all happened- Yeah ... so fast. Um, and all of a sudden, I was on a TV show. Like, we were all just kind of like,"Oh, whoa," like,"We're on the road, and we're going out with Keith Urban on national television." And it was just the craziest pinch me moment, like,

40:27every single second of filming that show. You, like, kinda lived in fight or flight the whole time- Yeah ...'cause you never knew when you were gonna go home. But you were also, it was- Oh, it's like Survivor. They kick you off at the end of the day, right? Yeah. It's a little- You just never know. Like, you're like,"Okay." Like, you start kind of, like, getting a vibe. Like, I kind of knew. I was like,"Hmm, I think I've got, like, two or three episodes left." Um, but no, it was, it was the coolest thing I've ever gotten to do as an artist. Like, it was so fun, and I'm so grateful. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think that it has changed your career path? Oh, for sure. Mm. I just put out a song with Gretchen Wilson on Friday. As I asked that question, I realized I could not pop it back into my mouth, because yeah. That is, uh, yes. You did, you wrote a song with Gretchen Wilson, which I read that you, was an original song of yours that you'd written ages ago. Yes. Yeah, I wrote it years before the show ever, like, was a thing. I didn't know about the show when we wrote it. So I wrote it with my husband and our good friend Jeff Silbar, who, side note, Jeff is, like, one of the craziest writers of all time. He wrote Wind Beneath My Wings, a little, a little well-known song.

41:31Oh my gosh. So he's, he's got a wide gamut there. Wind Beneath My Wings and honky-tonk songs. Why is he still working? Surely after Wind Beneath My Wings, the guy could buy an island and just retire. Right? But, um, nice to know that he is, and he wrote- Mm-hmm ... this song with you. Yeah. Yeah. And when we wrote it, we were like,"Oh, wouldn't it be so cool if we could get Gretchen Wilson on this?" Because the chorus is,"Here's to the good old boys, redneck girls- Yeah ... and honky-tonk songs." And, um, so- So you had her in mind all those years ago? Yes. Mm-hmm. And then full circle moment. And then God does this little, like, tinkering of the universe and put it all together, put me onto a whole TV show with her, and yeah, it's, it's amazing. So when you were doing, when you said yes to the TV show, before it started filming, were you thinking in the back of your mind,"At what, what point do I turn around and ask her?" When do I ask Gretchen? No, honestly, honestly, I forgot about it for a second. I think Dave had to remind me and be like,"Hey, what do you think about..." Like, after I'd been done filming. Right. And I was like,"Oh, wait. Yeah, I forgot all about that."'Cause I mean, I got somewhat close with Gretchen-

42:32Yeah ... while filming. She rode the bus with us, and she's also a mom. Mm-hmm. Um, and so I got, you know, she was kind of a, a comforting presence in that, like, I just left my baby for the first time- Yeah ... to chase this crazy thing, and she knows what that's like. Um- So it was, it was really a blessing that she was the tour manager. I mean, it was crazy that this all panned out the way that it did. But no, after we were done filming, after the show had premiered and everything, I texted her the song. Yeah. And I was like,"Hey, Gretchen," like- What do you think about this? "You know, you don't have to, but, like, I just think it would be really cool.""Sure be cool if you did." Um, and she was like,"I'm in." And it was that easy. It was that easy. And now it's out there. And now it's out, and I'm so, so grateful, so excited. It's wild. That's so cool. Yeah. That is so cool. Yeah. And leads very nicely into a segue. What we are going to do is gonna make you rank your songs. Okay. And the, and the song with Gretchen is on there. So- Oh, it is? Yes. I've got 10 of your songs here.

43:34Okay. And b- we're gonna do that s- the s- the sports draft thing that I know nothing about- Okay ... which is where we take, we take two songs, and you pick out of those two songs which one you like the best. Okay. And that carries on to the next round, and then... Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, I think so. Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So, like, I'm gonna say this song or this song. The brackets. Bracketing. Brackets. Got it. That's the word. Got it. Yay, teams. And go sports. This is why, this is why I work in country music and not, I'm not doing, you know- Yeah ... ESPN. You're good. You're good. Anyway, so Jenny Tolman, these are your songs, basically. Okay. Um, Till My Tank Is Empty or Honky Tonk Songs, which is the song with Gretchen, right? Yes, it is. Yeah. Oh, man. Well, but is it, like, my favorite or, like, what the people's favorite? Your favorite. We're picking your favorite. Oh, but those are so different. But yeah, I'm gonna make you pick. Oh. Geez. And you could pick one over the- But, like, they both... Oh. You could pick one over the other just because, like, well, I like to play that one live more than I like that one, or- Okay. Well, I'm gonna do Honky Tonk Songs because Gretchen Wilson's on that, duh.

44:34Okay. So Honky Tonk Songs or If We're Not Careful. Honky Tonk Songs. Honky Tonk Songs or Baby Steps. Ugh. Baby Steps. Ooh. Sorry, Gretchen. Baby Steps or It's a Boy. Are you kidding me? Who picked these? So so I, in interviews I used to ask people what their fa- what their favorite song is- Mm-hmm ... like, off the new album or something like that, and I always hate that question- Uh-huh ... because it's like picking your favorite child. Yeah. This is, like, way worse. This is way worse. But I'm gonna make you do it. Baby Steps- You have to do your whole family. Yeah. Um- Baby Steps or It's a Boy. Baby Steps. Okay. Baby Steps or Show Pony. Baby Steps. Baby Steps or High Class White Trash. High Class White Trash. It's a classic. It built me. Yes. It built me. I love that. High Class White Trash or Maybe Next Month.

45:34Oh, Maybe Next Month. Maybe Next Month or I Know Some Cowboys. That is a mean one. Those are probably two of my, like, all-time favorites. Oh. I Know Some Cowboys. And la... So last one, I Know Some Cowboys or Something to Complain About. I Know Some Cowboys. Yeah. And by the way, that has- I'm happy with that being there ... that has a star next to it'cause that one's one of my favorites. Oh, look at that. I feel like that's everybody's favorite, so it's like that makes sense that I'd end it on that one. It's a good one. Okay. It's a good one. I'm happy with that. We like that one. And then so last thing- Still really mean. It is mean. We're now going to get you to rank other people's songs, which is even- ... which is, uh, so much more fun actually. Um- Well, at least I did mine first. Yeah. So it's like I self-deprecated first. I'm gonna give you this: we're doing top 10 best country songs of all time. Okay. You can have a look at the list. Okay. I'm gonna read the list out. Okay. I need you to remove one and replace it with another. So think about what your favorite country song of all time is. So we've got, on the list at the moment we've got Dolly Parton with Jolene, Willie Nelson On The Road Again, Loretta Lynn Coal

46:35Miner's Daughter, Kenny Rogers The Gambler, Johnny Cash I Walk the Line. These are all very old, classic songs. Uh, Patsy Cline Crazy, Hank Williams I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry, George Jones He Stopped Loving Her Today, Tammy Wynette Stand By Your Man, and George Strait Amarillo by Morning. I'm gonna take out Stand By Your Man. Ooh. Mm-hmm. It's probably very controversial. That's okay. But- I mean, I thought she was all for the women, but, mm. That's fine. Tammy, unfortunately. Who would you- I mean, he did some pretty bad stuff- What would you re- ... that I don't know that I would've stood by. What would you replace it with? What is one of your songs that's n- one of your f- favorite all-time country songs that's not on that list? Probably A Boy Named Sue. Ooh. We need to make a note of that- Mentioned- ...'cause that's going on the list now ... mentioned Shel Silverstein earlier. Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause that was Johnny Cash. I mean, Boy Named Sue- That's a classic ... is a classic song. Mm-hmm. And it's a great song as well. And it needs to be one that everybody knows so that, like, you can get a sense of

47:36humor. You know what I mean? Your songs are very much like that, though. There's quite a lot- Mm ... of your songs that are, like, c- you know, kind of- Yeah ... cute, funny. Well, I try to do, like, a lot of... I, I de- I love to make people laugh. Yeah. I think once you make people laugh, you make them comfortable with you, and then once they're comfortable, they're open to hearing, like, what the actual message of the song is. Yeah. And writers like that, like Shel and Roger Miller and Dolly Parton, like, they're so good at writing these weird, wacky songs, but they have an actually really enlightening message- Yeah ... to them if you listen close enough and if you pay attention, and I just think it's brilliant. Like, people love to say that country music is, like, so dumb and stupid, and, like, it can be in certain ways- Uh-huh ... but there's such a genius to doing it right- Yeah ... and doing it well. Um, a- and in a, like, explaining the real life in a way that nobody else can do- Yeah ... and no other genre can do. I don't know. I can, I can get r- I can get into it. Well, we have to get you back. Um, we can get into it again. Um, I think Boy Named

48:40Sue is a good, good addition personally, so it's on the list now. Beautiful. We're popping it on the list. Jenny, it's been an absolute pleasure. It's been so fun. It's, you are so lovely to chat with, and- Oh, thank you ... you've done so much already in your career, and I, but I feel like you're just getting started. Thank you. And so, you know, it's gonna be wonderful to kinda see what the next chapter is. And, you know, there's a whole bunch of stuff that we haven't talked about, like Say Yes to the Dress and things like that. But- Yes. ... um, we can talk about that another time when you come in. Yes. We'll have another margarita in a teacup and, uh-... you know, see what else you've been up to. But, um, congrats on everything so far. Thank you. I did see you play live during CMA Fest- Yes ... which just happened, um, at All Red on Broadway, and- Yes ... you were phenomenal, and the- Thank you ... the audience absolutely loved you. So- Thank you ... it was a treat. Um- Thank you. I had so much fun. Thank you so much for coming and having a chat with us. Thanks for having me. We'll see you soon. See you.