Rebel_S1_JoeMicatrotto_WC1

0:00Ooh. All right. Hey, I'm, uh, Jared Gussett, formerly known as Jingle Jared, AKA the Vibe Code Cowboy, pew-pew. Um, I'm here today, uh, talking with a rebel, a disruptor, and also a friend of mine, Joe Micatrotto. I've described him in the past, I don't know if he likes the description-... as a chicken finger billionaire, even though I... Yeah. As a chicken finger cowboy, however you wanna be described. But, uh, I... every time we've hung out, it's been a master class in, uh, business for anyone who's been around you. Uh, and, uh, because we live in a world where there's so many, I think, bullshit experts in the world, everybody's teaching people how to get rich, and selling courses, and many people have never done anything. So it's always a pleasure to talk to someone-... who's done something, and he has the office to prove it. So this, this isn't pretend. This is all a setup. This is all a setup. This is all a setup. This is a WeWork, so Joe- Yeah, exactly. Thanks for coming on. Welcome to Regis. Yeah. Thank you for having me, Jingle Jared. You're welcome. You'll always be Jingle Jared. Um, so, uh, we met through our mutual friend Steve. First off, where are you from?

1:04H- why are we out here in Las Vegas, and where do you, uh, spend most of your time? Yeah. Crazy, crazy, uh, crazy to say where I'm from,'cause I feel like everywhere. Uh, born in Ohio. Mm-hmm. Lived there for a very short period of time. I claim Louisville, Kentucky as my home. Uh, I went to high school and college in Kentucky. Uh, after college, made my way out to LA. Lived in LA. Every 21-year-old's dream. Mm-hmm. Got to LA when people still liked California and LA. Um, I still like it, by the way. That's good. Um, did a little short stint in Hawaii, and, uh, spent pretty much the last 20 years in Las Vegas. Uh, my profession's kinda taken me all over the place, gotten to work in every corner, but I've been in the hospitality since birth. Mm. Uh, restaurant segment. Uh, I had a father that was, uh, icon in the kinda publicly traded restaurant world. Um, from Buca di Beppo to then getting introduced to Todd Graves and the team down at, uh, Raising Cane's at a very early stage, when they

2:05were still trying to figure out who they were. Uh, we melded very quickly, and, uh, was told, um,"Go on out west with, uh... and, and make things happen." Um, so those early days in the hospitality business, I always love your LA stories, when LA was cool. When it was. Um, you've had some pretty interesting, uh, overlaps with, like, history through your, you know, at a time when you were, uh, at... W- was it Buca? Mm-hmm. Back in the day, like, when... I think there was, like, a Ronald Goldman story in there. Oh, there was, there was all kind... Yeah. There was famous people from Saved by the Bell coming in and out of your world. Yeah. The, the, and there's- What are some of your fondest memories from those early days? Yeah, so the, the beauty of restaurants is, is everybody eats. Yeah. And, and when you get to certain places where, you know, the beauty of LA is, is you can't go out and somebody's gonna come in, whatever value you place on celebrity or whatever it is. But we, uh... I got to LA in 1997, late'97. Uh, maybe- Those were the good years. It was great times. Those were the g- We were just off the heavy metal, just out of grunge.

3:06Oh. Hip-hop was kinda having its controversy. OJ. Yeah. I mean, everything that was- Terry Tino was making his early films at that time. Oh, it was crazy. I got to, I got to actually sit next to him right after Pulp Fiction came out- Oh ... on Sunset at a restaurant where I was having lunch one time. It's just a vibrant, exciting area to be in. What you find is, is when you're working all the time, which is exactly what we were all doing in the restaurant industry, you just got kinda intermingled. It'd be, you know, a producer or somebody, or an actor, or an athlete, or somebody coming into the restaurant, and they just wanted to be like a normal person- Mm-hmm ... when they came in, in most cases. And they just loved to talk food, talk family, all these different pieces. And, and Buca was a great vehicle for that. And, uh, you know, I'd started off in, uh, on 80 West Green Street in, in, uh, right off of Colorado Avenue in Old Town Pasadena, and then found my way over the hill. Mm. Well, I guess not technically over the hill, but, uh, to Encino on Ventura Boulevard, and that opened up a door of just crazy, you know. You're sitting

4:06there at 9:00 at night, and Scott Baio walks in, you know, and you're giving him crap like- Yes, please. ... as you would Joanie, or, you know, or Shaq. I mean, Shaq at the time, and, and there was nothing bigger than USC football and, and the Lakers at that point in time. And Shaq coming in and j- you know, just being... Haven't got to see him many times since. You know, coming in and wanting to meet the chef, and sit there and talk, and have a real world conversation. Or the time I was at Ben & Jerry's, and he's there with his, uh, with his wife and kids at the time, and he forgot his wallet-... and I'm buying him ice cream on Ventura Boulevard at those points. It's very nice of you. Yeah. You know, it's like,"Ooh, I get to buy Shaq," you know, even though I'm trying to rub two nickels together at that point. And it was just, you know, this intermingling, and getting exposed to that, it felt very surreal. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, I had a great, great experience where I got a phone call one night in Encino, and I'm 22, 23 at the time, and there's... You get these calls from these agents or whoever it is- Yeah ... like,"So-and-so wants to come in to eat tonight." And I got this one phone call, and it was,"Mr. Jackson would like to come in and eat tonight."

5:10Oh. Well, what... You say Mr. Jackson on Ventura Boulevard, and you're right around the corner from the Jackson house- Mm-hmm ... and not that far from all the different people. So I'm, I'm now going,"Oh my God." Yeah. "I've got Michael Jackson is coming into the restaurant tonight." I am like... And so I'm running around to the staff, like,"Don't make a deal about it. This is it. Mr. Jackson needs his own room. Mr. Jackson needs to be walked..." But I would've carried him in, uh, you know, if I could've. And I'm just getting so excited, so excited, so excited. So 9:00 rolls around, limo pulls up in front of the building. I walk outside, like standing by the door. Window rolls down, and it's Jermaine. Oh, man. Not the Jackson we expected or wanted. Not the Jackson I was expe- Damn. But here's the deal. Here was the cool part. Still exciting. Still was on the Victory Tour. Yes. And I got to meet his son. And Jermaine Jr at the time, who's, you know, uh, probably in his 40s now-... that I got to have a conversation with Jermaine and his

6:12son, sitting in a private dining room going,"Man, I'm kinda disappointed Michael wasn't here, but-" Oh, you, you said this? Not to him. No, okay. But sitting there and having a conversation and just getting... And I'm like, I am sitting as 22, 23-year-old sitting with, you know, Jermaine Jackson and his son, and Michael's brother, and just, you know, the, the whole Havenhurst, you know, story. Still historical. Oh, still historical. I could sit- Have you seen what he's done with his hair lately? I, I- It's been an internet meme ... you know what, I, I actually- It's not great ... watched the documentary or the movie- I hear ... or whatever came out here recently. I actually thought it was pretty good. I gotta see it. Yeah. Um, the kid was amazing in it. Um, but it was, uh, yeah, it, it, you just have all these different... You know, I, I will say this just to bang on him if, you know, somehow this ever got out. Oh, he'll see this. So- We're dieting him ... not him. No, he was great. But it was funny'cause there were two guys who in particular used to try to come into the restaurant incognito. Yeah. Now, the incognito thing I think's- It's- ... kinda gone the way of, you know, it's, it's... but it was a thing at- Yeah ... some point. And so one night Arsenio Hall came into the restaurant. One of the

7:18most recognizable people probably on earth at that point in time, tried to come in incognito. The other one that would come in incognito all the time, and this one also cracked me up, was Matt LeBlanc. Oh, wow. And Matt LeBlanc had the worst, and this is at Friends at its heyday-... had the worst fake mustache and, and police officer, you know, he had the old chips. Bringing more attention to him probably. Oh, it was, it was just, uh, hilarious. But then you had other guys that were not afraid of who they were, not that these guys were afraid of it, but were who not, who were not afraid of who they were. Lived it, owned it, and then were super cool to everybody. Brad Pitt- Yeah. I love that ... one of the greatest guys- I love to hear that ... you'd ever meet in your life. Um, and then, uh, um, Tom Cruise. I heard he's the... I've only heard good things. Uh- I wanna meet him ... phenomenal guy. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, and this, I mean, imagine, put yourself in, you know, 24-year-old shoes and you're sitting there and you're like,"These are the guys." The Lakers for the most part were great. The producers, and it was nothing that... The thing I will

8:18say about that time in LA is, is you'd never... You, you would respect every single person that came in because you never knew who anybody was. Yeah. And I found out, uh, VH1 back in the day used to have this show, Behind the Music, that was on and- The best ... they did, it was great documentaries on bands and this and that. And I remember there was one guy who showed up on one that I had been, like, become friends with this guy's family and him, and they'd dine in the restaurant once a week, and all this other stuff. And come to find out he was, like, the record producer for Quiet Riot, Mötley Crüe, all these other- Sick ... things. And I'm sitting there and I'm like,"My God, I've never even... Music never even came up with him." Yeah. And that's, that, that was the cool side of it. When you really got to see the guys that ran the city from a, from an entertainment standpoint. And so they were very generous too. Yeah. It was not a- I feel like I caught the last piece of that in LA, like, it, I, I sort of bridge now between two worlds- Mm-hmm ... but I get excited by, like, I love those OG- Yeah ... Hollywood people, and the fact that, like, there used to be, like, a real star

9:21system, and that's what made it exciting. It was- It's kinda like the new world we're living in, you know, again, like, there's very few restaurants with that kind of excitement in LA. And by the way, I still love LA. Yeah. I just, like you, we split our time in a lot of different places. I think the people that are complaining about LA, to be frank, are the people that have felt the industry has changed so dramatically- Mm-hmm ... that a lot of the fun, and the perks, and the jobs have, that existed back then, and the infrastructure of that town, but that's a whole other thing. But, um, I like the fact that there still are a few restaurants, like Craig's, our favorite place- Oh ... where you can walk... And by the way, I'm gonna try that trick of calling ahead and be going,"Oh, Jingle Jared's on his way. I'm, like-... not tackle- I think you have a table in LA. You know- I don't know that you've got your actual dream anymore ... but I wanna attract more attention. Yeah. I'm kidding. Um- Craig's old school LA. That's what I like about Craig. You see Craig- And the nicest guy in the world ... oh, they, they, the most generous. Yeah. That's what people- Like, generous ... don't really understand- Yeah ... about LA is it is a community of people who all know each other. And I think that people who aren't from there sometimes feel intimidated, or they're like, "Hollywood, Hollyweird," all this stuff like that. Yeah. Um, but I've on- the people that you mentioned, the Brad Pitts, the Tom Cruise, I've

10:24only heard incredible things about them. Yeah. Like, human beings, good people. I mean, and, and, and, you know, they're not gonna remember anybody they necessarily interacted with, but to show that generosity or just show that decency when you're kinda going through and, and, and just getting those one-time one, you know, two, three touches in a lifetime, great guys. The thing, you know, it's funny, I, to, uh, I, this came up, we were, we were in, we were eating at Craig's in Nashville, uh, probably not more than a month ago. And I'm sitting, and I, and I look up, and David Foster- Yeah ... is sitting right at the table next to us, and he's with his wife, uh, Katherine McPhee- Mm-hmm ... I believe is, a- and, and a couple, uh, couple of, uh, country music guys, very well-known. And I'm sitting there and I, and it was interesting'cause you're looking at the rest of the crowd, it was pretty busy, Tuesday or Wednesday night, and you're watching this and you're realizing that nobody's running to their tables trying to do this. And what it said to me is, is, like, he created such a home in LA- Mm-hmm ... and it wasn't just about the food, it wasn't just about the experience, it

11:26wasn't just about the service, it wasn't just about being seen. Mm-hmm. He created an environment of safety, and feeling good, and feeling comfortable. And it was funny'cause I just remember look- looked at one of the guys at the table, and I do, I s- I was like,"Do you realize who's sitting right behind you right now?" But I think you had a similar experience. Elton John was sitting- Yeah ... next to somebody I know that's- And everyone was just cool- ... that's who too ... and safe and good. It's very hard- And, and- ... even as, as long as we've lived in it- But it all sh- ... to, like, not look a little bit, but it's, it is one of those things where- But- ... just the code of the restaurant- Yeah ... would mean I probably wouldn't go up and say something. Yeah. And I also think that Craig's created an environment where everybody feels equal. Yeah As, as, and I think that's a, that's a, that's a really tough thing to do in the cities a lot of times that, you know, restaurants run into. I actually think his job, uh,'cause, and then we'll, I wanna jump back to your world of restaurants, but his job is pretty difficult because he is always on and now at two places. It's not like he has, like, 100 franchises where eventually it just goes into autopilot. He's doing the, you know, full stack, I am your friend and neighbor there and there.

12:26Absolutely. And it, and I actually feel like the way that Nashville is now becoming another city, much like what LA was, where there's a lot of industry and creative people living there, that's a sign of the times that, like, it's evolving beyond, you know, what I remember Nashville like seven, 10 years ago. Well, having gone to school 100 miles, not even 100 miles, 60 miles north of there, it is not even- Not even remotely ... reminiscent of what- It used to be a one-horse town And again, I think it's probably the same way the guys in Hollywood felt in the'50s, '60s, and'70s when movies and going to the movies became such a big every-week thing. Mm-hmm. That they were probably,"Our town's not the same." I think Nashville's gone through that quite a bit too because you have a, you know, a good old-school local base there. Mm-hmm. And you had a lot of good old-school local country singers that kinda came through working the bars and kinda coming up. Mm-hmm. And if you got to go on the road it was a big deal, and now it's just been kinda descended upon. It's not necessarily a bad thing. It's gonna add more high-rises and it's gonna add a bigger tax base and this kinda stuff.

13:28Yeah. But the reality is that city from an energy level, it, it, it's probably why I love it so much,'cause it does remind me of late'90s, early 2000s LA. Yeah. Where it's like,"Oh, it's Tuesday night and so-and-so's playing at the House of Blues." Yeah. "Let's run down there real quick and see," or there's a record release party going here, or there's a singer-songwriter night here. I love that stuff and it, and it creates an energy that doesn't just happen typically in most cities where it's a Friday night, a Saturday night, and maybe a Sunday morning. It's, it's, it's really kind of, you know, it's kind of evolved into something. We'll see where it goes. Agree. Yeah. I mean- But that's ... you're right. And, like, a lot of, like, even as me coming up as a musician in New York where there was always something to do, I think I miss that. In LA there was never a, like the way you had a congealed music scene of, like, hair metal and rock and hip hop. Yeah. Now that's shifted to Nashville. Anyways, but I'm gonna jump forward'cause I wanna hear how you went from the world of Buca into the world of, uh, you know, what is probably one of the most famous food franchises, uh, in the world right now, and the

14:30original connectivity with Raising Cane's and Todd,'cause that story, I feel like you've told it to me in pieces, but-... here we are. Now you get to tell everybody. Yeah, no, absolutely. So, um, you know, the world kinda throws things at you at certain points where you just, you know, sometimes you grab it, sometimes you don't realize it's happening. Mm-hmm. Sometimes you, uh, manipulate it in, cultivate it in maybe for a better word. I had been, right out of college went to go work at Buca di Beppo. Uh, had been there for about eight and a half, nine years. Uh, I was doing a stint, of all places, in Honolulu, Hawaii after being in LA for, um... I say LA. I was in LA for about six years and Orange County for about three. And I did what everybody does when they go to Orange County from LA."This is so th-" You know, this and that. Mm-hmm. "And it's a bubble," and this and that. And then by the time I was leaving I was like,"I love the bubble and it's," you know. Yeah. All the different pieces that go along with that. But, um, I was in LA, um, it, w- or excuse me, in, uh, uh, Honolulu. I was at a point in my career where my dad was

15:31running the company and I knew that if I was gonna move up at all, I was getting very close to having to answer or report directly. Mm-hmm. And I, you know, I just felt like if I was ever gonna kinda spread my wings, I, I, I need to kinda go look at different things. Well, as life throws curve balls this way and that way, um, my dad had had a relationship with this guy named Todd Graves- Heard of him ... who had this chicken finger restaurant down in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. And I think at the time the only one that was outside the state was in Ridgeline, Mississippi, I believe. What year is this? This is 2004. Okay. Wow. And, um, and they'd been around for a while. You can look up the story of how Todd started, going on the sockeye salmon fishing boat and working in the oil refinery in LA- Mm-hmm ... for a little while, just to gather money to go do this one little end cap. They had no national presence at that point. Now, back then if you said fast food to a full-service guy it was a dirty word. Mm-hmm. So my dad kept telling me,"Oh, you gotta meet Todd." And this relationship had lasted for a while. He was, they, you know, uh, Todd is very much so into mentoring

16:33and being mentored and, and just sharing examples and going through stuff with other people. His track record shows that. So my dad and him had had a relationship for a while, and my dad was just kinda pressing on me,"Well, if you're gonna leave Buca you should really go down and meet Todd, and you should really get, you know... You should go see it. I think you'll fall in love with it." And I,"What do I wanna do with fast food?" Yeah. "Dad, I'm, you know, this isn't really my thing." And, um, so I got on a flight from Honolulu and flew to Baton Rouge, Louisiana. I don't know what time it was. Mm-hmm. Come ripping out of the airport this Suburban, this old kinda... Yeah I won't say it was beat up, it was just older. Yeah. Suburban comes rolling through. He's in there with c- with a couple other guys, Mike and Roddy, and he's like, there's a cooler sitting in the middle. And I was like, "Oh, shit, I'm on a recruiting trip." For anybody that did any kind of- Yeah ... athletic recruiting back in the day, that's exactly how the things go. Only you were 16 or 17-... when they were taking you out, and had the beer waiting for you. Yeah. So I get into the, get into the car and they're like,"Oh, welcome." I had no idea what time it was.

17:33Yeah. I didn't know what was going on. I was like,"Just take me to the restaurant." So they say,"Pull up to the gates of LSU." It's a historic restaurant at this point. Not, not, I mean, now it is. At that point it was just a popular college place. Um, it's right next to The Chimes and Varsity and all the kinda hangouts that are still there to this day. Go into the... And it's literally a dump at the end of a short little dumpy mini mall, or not even, a little retail center with a... It had a bike shop next to it. If the bike shop's still there, congrats. Um, so- We go inside and he's like,"Look at the pictures on the wall, and look at this, and look at that." And if, y- you know, if you've ever been in a Buca- Right ... we had, I think, 2,500 plus pictures on the walls everywhere, so it wasn't something that was like, I don't need to see. Right. I was groggy. Yeah. I was like,"Just bring the food out." Yeah. And I did kinda what everybody does the first time they go eat at Cane's, especially if you go inside and eat at one, and you're not told by 20 people at this time what it's like before you go in. Yeah. And I tried the chicken, I tried the fries, slaw, toast, and then I tried the sauce,

18:36then I tried everything with the sauce. I don't think I was at the table for five minute. And these guys are watching me like, oh, like, like I'm some grandioso chef that's- Yeah ... gonna be able to say,"Oh, yeah, so I would do this," like, no. They were just looking. And I'd pick my head up, and I was like,"We're in." Wow. And I think that was more shocking- That quick ... I think that was more shocking to them than, you know- And by we're in, what did they want you to do? Well, I think they were, I think the move was that I think my dad had expressed interest to them to say,"Hey, I'd, I, you know, this might be something my sons might be into or whatever." So, and, and, um, so I try the stuff and I'm like,"I- we're in." Wow. And they're like,"What?" And I mean, I've been on, I've been in Baton Rouge for a total of about 35 minutes-... at this point. And they're like,"What, wha- wha- wha- what? No, explain." And I said,"Look, here's the deal. From my perspective, I walk into a building." I'm guessing it was about 10 o'clock at night. Yeah. Don't quote me on that. You have Black, white, Hispanic, young, old, kids, moms, single moms, this- Yeah ... parents, all, in this very small dining room, by the way. And I went,"You've got

19:41everybody in here from, they're bending their need to different people. They have different home scenarios. They have different economic scenarios, and they're all having a great time." Wow. There is a single mother in here at 10 o'clock, no judgment, with her child. Mm-hmm. Single women with children eating out anywhere is the most protected class, in my opinion- Mm-hmm ... in the restaurant industry. That is a mom saying,"I am going to take my child to go eat by myself with the chi- child or children." That, it doesn't get better than that. Then I go,"This food, nobody's doing this." Huh. Nobody's doing this. And I said,"But they'll understand it out west because of In-N-Out." And he was like,"Okay." And I said,"Small menu, fast pace, culturally through the roof." Yeah. And you can pick that up in the walls. Yeah. You can pick it up in the feeling in the walls. And he was like,"Okay, what are you gonna do? You know, blah, blah, blah." I said,"I will get back to you." So I fly back to LA, and I'm just like,"Yeah.""Cane's getting back together."

20:42Yeah. "We're going to LA.""It's gonna be amazing." And we go up to my parents' house, and it's me, my dad, my brother, and my mother sitting in there, and we're like,"Okay, what'd you think?" I'm like,"Oh, this thing's awesome. This is gonna be the greatest thing ever. I can't wait to get back to LA, and we all do this." My dad looked at, it was some of the best piece, advice my dad ever gave. He looks at me and we're like,"We're gonna get together in LA." He goes,"You're not doing it in LA." He goes, "This is not gonna happen in LA." And, uh, and you could kind of hear, okay- ... where are we gonna go? And then and he goes,"I think you should go to Vegas." You could have felt, seen, heard the wind suck out of the room as fast as you possibly could. And the reason for that was, is much like a lot of people at that point in time, what was LA for us? It's where you went to blow off steam once a month. Yeah. It's where you went to go play with your friends. It's where you went to not have anybody know what you went and did. Yeah. And, and I was like,"Oh my God." And interestingly enough, a few years earlier I had been offered to come out to, to be in the Vegas market at Buca, and I was like,"Uh,

21:43Dad, I can't do, I'm gonna end up in a ditch or..." To me, especially at that age, that like- Yeah. I mean, it's... At this point though, I had just gotten married, and I was like,"Okay, well, he knows what he's..." And he's like,"Hey, if I'm gonna help you guys kinda get off the, off the, uh, off the hump, then, you know..." And then there's so many, so much more from start to the, to the end of it, but that, that was really the first introduction- That's insane ... to what I consider a good friend to this day. And how many did you open, and how sequentially- So- ... like, how quickly- Yeah ... did this all go? Well, there's a couple historical things if you pull the, the news out- Yeah ... between 2005 and 2012- Yeah ... uh, that really took place. I mean, number one was obviously we were in a, as a country, in a major boom in'04,'05,'06- Yep ...'07. Yep. And then when'08 hit... Now, we did not cut. It's not like we opened. Our first one, I'll always remember this, which is a extremely successful restaurant here in town right now, but the first one we opened, I remember it being referred to as a crossover neighborhood. Hmm. Okay. Yeah. Not what you wanna hear-

22:43Yeah ... or less than the... But, well, we opened it up. It came out to, um... The people that came in really liked it, but nobody knew we were there. Yeah. So you got a booming town, a, a, what I would say kind of a crossover area in town, and so you didn't have a lot of people coming in that area to eat. People were spending 20, 30, $40 on lunch- Yeah ... going to Landry's, going to this place, going to that place. Then the, then the, uh, the downturn- 2008 ... hits. Yeah. So now, and, and this was ground zero. I mean, you know, you had- Stoppages of every building ... everything. Oh, you had strip- Real estate just- ... you had strippers owning five homes. You had mortgage brokers-... making millions of dollars. You had, you know, real estate agents that owned six homes and were... You know, you had fake rents not being paid, all this. And then everything that seemingly kinda came with the, you know, what comes in bad times, all the shenanigans began. So for us, we're sitting back there and we're going,"Oh, God, this is, this is it. We're done. This is gonna crush us." But something funny happened. We just kept working, kept our heads down, didn't really say anything. At

23:47the time, we had two restaurants. We didn't really, we just kinda kept churning, churning, churning. And what we found was, is that family, we were putting out great product. We had great kids work in the restaurants, great guys and gals running the restaurants, and a ton of energy. And what ended up happening is, is we really... I always joke, we didn't have any money for a marketing budget. Mm-hmm But everybody in town knew us, like in the schools, in the universities.'Cause we'd walk in and go,"We don't have any money, but we got lots of chicken, and we'll feed you." And what you find is, is the, that food is a currency- Yeah ... in a lot of different ways. And so we really just dug in, dug in, dug in. And then what we found is in 2009, 2010, at really the heart where people were feeling it, people were still gonna go out to eat, but they weren't gonna go someplace that they had to leave a tip. They weren't gonna go someplace that they were gonna have to worry about refills being- Yep ... charged for. They wanted to go to a place that they felt good about what they were eating and went there. Well, In-N-Out always had that. Yeah. And I believe that our couple little restaurants had that, and then you start to

24:48see, and then you'd hear this talk, and you'd start to hear people... And what you'd notice is the, the dining room,'cause everybody that goes to a fast food restaurant for the first time generally goes inside. Yeah. And so we'd have this, and our, our drive-throughs were busy, but having a busy drive-through is really reflective on people love your product, and they're- Mm-hmm ... coming back for the second or third time- Mm-hmm ... or fourth time or fifth time. Well, what ended up happening was, is we just started to get this trade down effect from the more expensive restaurants, and it just started to grow, and it started to grow. And that grew, you know, for the next 14 years to 36 restaurants- Whoa ... 40 under development. I mean, it was a, it was a, it was a lot of fun. Holy crap. Uh, the... And you weren't working from, like, I guess when things become established, like a franchisee playbook you were inventing. There was no, like, marketing playbook or anything coming down- No, I mean- ... from on high? Yeah, I mean, look, the, the, the, again, I- You could just do whatever you- This is n- uh, no, no. Within, within y- there's guardrails, but one of the things, this is one of the brilliant things that Todd did. This wasn't like there were 100 franchisees around the country. Yeah. I believe at max there were five franchise partners that were all staring at each

25:52other inside of a building in probably 2006,'7. Mm-hmm. I think that kinda dulled down to about three or four of us. There were a couple internal people, this was w- was a really cool thing he did. There was a couple internal district managers and stuff in their company that got the opportunity to go open a restaurant, and some of them, uh, one of my dear friends in, in, uh, Nashville became one of those and, and grew to, I think, 10 or 11 restaurants. Wow. But it was always very tight. But the one thing that, uh, I didn't mention this. He didn't, you know, he didn't invite us into the system'cause of me at that time. Mm-hmm. He invited us into the system'cause of my dad. And when you were sitting at that original table with the people that were at the table, and some of them with a couple of their sons and whatnot, there was more restaurant talent and experience sitting at that table... And getting back to Todd having mentors, Todd having this. Yeah. What Todd did is he took the best from what everybody could give them- Curated and- ... and then remembered where anybody failed in certain pieces or this and that.

26:53Because it's one thing to hear the tales of somebody's success, m- the real lessons are in the tales of failure. I, yes. I mean, and- I mean, that's, it's, it's- ... by the way, that is, uh, everybody wants to, these days, in this hustle culture economy, just be like,"This is what you need to do to succeed. This is..." I have learned literally nothing from succeeding. I've only learned with the setbacks, being like, trust me, succeeding is fucking easy. Well, uh- That's the fun part. It, what it is, and then, and then, but the, the answers and the, and the, and the scars and the scar tissue- Mm-hmm ... and the, and the muscles are built in the loss. Yeah. Or the it's not working and the build back up, and that's, and I think that's where, you know, I think that's, when somebody can recognize that real quick, because, uh, believe me, I've had a lot more people that have walked up to me and been like,"Oh, man, tell me the, how did you, y- y- well, you had it so easy- Mm ... and this and that." And I, and I sit there and I look at them and I'm like, "Yeah, you wouldn't ask me this in 2008." Yeah. "You wouldn't ask me this in 2009. You wouldn't have asked when you're literally having a Tuesday finance meeting going,'There's no money.'"

27:56Yeah. Like- And by the way- ... literally nothing ... have you read the, uh, Phil Knight Shoe Dog book? Yeah. Like, that's the same th- it's everyone thinks Nike's, like, this, like, technicolor brand that just emerged out of nowhere. It's literally the way he describes it, it's a painful book to read. 15, 20 years of pure failure- Mm ... of, like, are we gonna make it? Yeah. And, like, that, most people nowadays, i- e- including, I think, uh, because of the world of AI and tech investments and stuff like that, expect things to, like, take money in on a Monday, this thing's successful on a Friday. And, like, that's the way I think VC works out in SF. But the, I think that the American entrepreneur spirit, like, also another great book that I read about entrepreneurs- Mm ... is The Age of Gold, is the manifest destiny of, like, the way entrepreneurs literally struggle until they figure it out. I think that, yeah, I think the, one of the most, uh, troublesome things or I think one of the things that have really just shook the system is this, this idea of valuation. Mm-hmm. I raise $10, so I'm worth 100. Mm-hmm. I raise $100, so I'm worth-

28:56There's a lot of paper billionaires out there and- And so what ends up happening in those regards, what ends up happening in those regards is, is people will be like,"Oh, yeah, I, I..." They actually think their company's worth that. Mm-hmm. And it's, you know, it's, a lot of it's on hope and dreams, and there's no real materials there. You know, it's like, I, Elon gets busted up as much as anybody. Mm-hmm. Uh, you know, oh, should he have this or h- sh- you know, I was, I was thinking about this this morning on- Mm ... whatever it is, July 23rd or whatever date it is. I was thinking about this, you know, everybody was like,"Should the country have a trillionaire? Should this be the..." And, and it's like nobody's talking about that he's now worth half of what that was. Yeah. You know? By the time they're in the debate, it's finished, yeah. Three weeks ago, three weeks ago. And it's like, you know, the reality is nobody also hears the stories of him sitting in a room staring at parts for years. Mm-hmm. Nobody hears him tearing down, no one hears all the, the stuff it took to build up to that. Yeah. And so, yeah, I mean, that, the true form of capitalism as it is, is I'm gonna work, I'm gonna do, and I'm gonna get, and if I get, then I'm gonna make more people

29:57money. And, and it, it's cyclical. And so I do think in a lot of ways, that's not to say that there's not bad people in the world and people don't do this- I, I'm with you on this in that there, there's a lot of people that are complaining from the silence about things that actually are benefiting them, the money that- Oh ... goes back into the economy. ... businesses that are created out of businesses that people start. And again, I, I, I think it's, I, I, I think it's very difficult at times to understand. I also have sympathy or empathy, however you wanna look at it, for somebody who only sees that and gets up every day, goes and works their tail off from 9:00 to 5:00 for 40 years, and goes,"I never had a chance." Mm. I totally, I... So to walk into another man's shoes or another woman's shoes- You gotta ... you, you gotta, y- you can't, you don't know the full story, and your way's not always right. Mm-hmm. It's just, it doesn't mean that it's wrong. And neither scenario in those is wrong. So it's, but it, there is a lot of bashing on that kind of stuff. So before we switch into cars,'cause I got-... the car section for you, and then we'll, we'll let you out of here soon. But, um, uh, so how did, uh, at what point did, uh, the consolidation all occur where Todd decided that, um, this thing was

31:00gonna just roll back into his world, and, you know, what, what year, how many years until that thing sort of occurred? Yeah. I think, I think it was always the plan. Um, I used to joke, for anybody that's old enough to remember, Dave Thomas, who was one of the origi- Yeah ... the original Wendy's guy. He would do ads p- before he passed, he would do these ads where he'd get on to,"Hi, I'm Dave Thomas, the founder of- Mm ... of Wendy's." And of course, Wendy's is a, you know, traded company and all these other pieces. But the reality is, is I think through some of the mentorships that he's had, he's gotten... I'm not gonna go through all the guys and gals, but some of his closest confidants and closest people that he entrusted to teach him and the things that he took away from, and all, all us to this day, a lot of those people, I think, threw up the warning signs of why you would or wouldn't wanna do this. And I think he and his family and his legacy wants to be synonymous with Raising Cane's. Mm-hmm. And I think when... Control is a big deal. Control is a really big deal. And, and as

32:02we all know, if you don't believe that, next time you're on an airplane and it hits a bump, you tell me-... if you'd rather be the one driving it. Yeah, yeah. You know, if that makes sense. Um, and I think for him, he knew he was always going to ultimately control them all at some point. I think he got the best out of what he could of each of us. Um, not necessarily in order of who sold first, last. The investors of, uh, the, the, the restaurant business. Yeah. But I think what ended up happening at that, you know, when they... I think they were getting big enough that it was garnering attention from the places you don't necessarily wanna get it from, capital groups- Mm ... PEs, all this other stuff, where it becomes this like, ugh. And if you've got some satellites of restaurants floating out there that are independently owned by other people, it only takes, you know, one of those groups to come in and then start kinda causing their thing. So he, uh, he did a really good job. We, you know, we were the largest franchisee at the time- Wow ... in revenue and, uh, and in, uh, restaurants. And, you know, we had had somebody

33:06approach us, and I went straight to him and said,"Hey, look, man, these guys are snooping around." Now, at the time, I think I'm 42, 43. And would you have had control to be able to sell those? To an extent. There's parameters- Yeah ... that are put into contracts, that they either have to be matched or blah, blah, blah. Mm-hmm. But that, but the long and short of it is, we didn't wanna sell to anybody. Yeah. And, um, and we wanted to give up the war- I wanted to tell him as a friend like, "Hey, there's, these guys are snooping around, and you know what they do." And, and I said,"We've been around this. Not everybody has." Mm. Especially the, the guys that had come out of the company to go open their own restaurants. And so, uh, he was like, you know... We had, we had a good talk about it. It was,"Great. Cool. Thank you." And then, um, you know, then the opportunity, I think at some point, we had, we had put out a big plan where we were interested in going and doing this growth. And I think for him, I think we would've gotten probably a little too big. Mm-hmm. And I could totally understand that if I'm sitting in his seat. I think it was also probably an opportune time. They were very solid. They had just gone through a massive growth model. Um, they were really solid at the time, you know, in their

34:07world. Leadership team was phenomenal. Yeah. Love the guys to this day. I'm friends with all of them. Um, and it was just the right time. And, and I always say the best part about the whole thing is it's so rare that you go into a company with hugs and kisses, and you exit it with hugs and kisses. Very rare. And six years later- Everyone still loves each other ... we text probably two, three times a month and- That's it ... run into each other or, you know, and I give him crap. He gives me crap. And, uh, and it's, and it's fun. And we've all... You know, and I, I'm so proud of what that company's become and what it's doing and, uh, and what I think it'll do. It is the, you know, it is the chicken finger restaurant on earth. I mean, it's, for me, it's hitting at, for like, as a cultural thing, just as someone who is viewing it from the outside, it's hit another cultural level because of country music, sports, even him as a, like, as a model of these new type of entrepreneur CEOs that have a public persona. Yeah. Like, you know, if you would've said to me five years ago, or s- seven y-"Point him out in a lineup," I wouldn't have known. But now, in a great way, in an elegant way- Mm ... in a non-cheesy way, he's been able to be, um, you know, the face of the

35:12company. Although, it, it probably would've been fine without a face of the company. He, he... Yeah, he's real. Yeah. He, what you see is, is who he is. And, and, and the one thing that I don't think Cane's gets its biggest due for, two, one, they were the non-beer, non-car dealership, non, uh, you know, non-soda. Yeah. Like, they support, in their communities, every team that's there. Wow. You will not see an arena, you will not see a goalpost, you will not see a 50/50 raffle that they're not a part of in every... It's even surprising me at these times. I'll see, uh, some small college- It's wild ... playing on ESPN8, and I'm like,"Oh, great. Cane's is..." Mm. But then the, that was part one. I think part two is no one in the restaurant industry, and very few industries, has leveraged a great concept with social media, with social media influencers, athletes. Yes. And they will do what it takes to make sure the right person is serving something through the window the day after the Super Bowl, or somebody who, you know-

36:15Genius ... hit a home run in the All-Star game, or whatever it may be. They are all about it. And they're real ab- This isn't like I'm doing- It's, that's the huge difference between them and like, again, not to rag on the McDonald's CEO who's afraid to eat his burger. But like, you know, like people can sense authenticity. That's... And, and yeah, I mean, there's no question that it is, it is as authentic as he is, and I, and I would sit back... And as authentic as the company is. I mean, there's a lot of... There's, there's literally thousands of people behind that, but there's a collective group of about 10 to 15 people behind that that are running these day to day, ensuring you're getting what you're getting, uh, you know, making sure that the value propositions for the guest are where they need to be. I mean, they, they, they nail it. And they're not the ones that get to be, you know, on a TV or on a- Yeah ... you know, in a Instagram reel or whatever else. 'Cause they believe in the re- religion of Cane, Raising Cane's. Absolutely. And, and- And that's the hardest thing to do. Towards the end of my first business, you could feel when you get to a certain size, the, uh, employees starting to like rebel, and

37:16that's when you know, you know, that it's no longer- There's, there's a, there's- ... it's difficult ... plenty of books on it, but there's a lot of, uh-... there's a lot of things and a lot of companies that change as, whether it's size, whether it's volume, whether it's location- Yeah ... whatever it may be, that definitely go in a lot of different ways. Well, I would... I'll leave it at this. The, towards the very end of the business, I was on a earn-out, we had only a few years left. I'd go to the office and I'd feel the energy of like,"Who's this fucking idiot coming in here?" Like I was like,"I started the company, and that's why we all work here." But, um, that's when I knew it was time to like, you know, shift energy into something else. Yeah. We, we can do a whole nother episode on-... how people feel about you while you're still in the company after you sold it. There you go. There's a whole... It's a- So to summarize it-... the guy who bought my business, Ari Emanuel, who's like the real Ari from Entourage, said,"Congratulations, now everybody at the company hates you." Yeah. Yeah. And I was like,"Oh, thank you. Oh, wait." I went like,"What?" But he- Which Ari you doing now? No, I'm kidding. Uh, uh, but, uh, I'm gonna shift. Last, uh, batch of questions here. Uh, I'm a car guy. Uh, only later in life did I become, uh, excited about cars. It's weird, I'm

38:19turning into my dad. Mm-hmm. He dressed like this. He still does dress like this. He loves country music. I didn't grow up, you know, living country music, but he loves it, obs- is obsessed with cars. And w- you, alongside one of my favorite people, Steve, you guys have done Gumball Rally twice or once. I actually wore the hat. There we go. Yeah, there you go. I wore the hat today. But what is the connection with cars? Uh. Is this a, a all your life thing or a later in life thing? Yeah. I mean, now look, I'm, from a little kid staring at Lamborghini Countaches that might as well have been Mars- Mm. ... to, you know, over the years just garnering an apprec- appreciation for the art that is cars. And it doesn't have to be something that somebody can't go buy down the street. Mm-hmm. It's, um, I just love, you know, I, I... There's something about cars. I, I'm not really overly concerned about what anybody thinks about a car. Mm. But car connect- I, there's a connective tissue for me with cars. I love to drive. Um, and so yeah, wa- later in life, when, uh, when we've had the ability to go do a Gumball Rally or go do a... I'm not a car, you know, I'm not like a coffee and cars

39:22guy- Yeah, yeah ... that wants to go over and kind of shine. You're not like Jay Leno. Go out and bob's big boy on the weekend. Yeah. I, I mean, I'll sit... No. He, he, but he lo- I mean, maybe the most knowledgeable guy. Yeah. If you ever sit and listen to him for about 10 minutes- Oh, he's insane ... you realize real quick he's talking on a level that, you know... But his, he has a love for cars, I think, whether anybody knows it or not, and I think that's the, uh... You know, everybody's got their thing. Some people like to, you know, some people like to go out and fish. Some people like to go do this. For me, if you sat there and said like,"What is my f- one of my favorite things in the world?" I do like fishing too. Yeah. Um, one of my favorite things in the world is to just go into a car dealership or at an auto house or something and just look. Mm. Look, touch, and feel because I do believe, um, you know, going all the way back to the Ferrari family, the Ford family, the... I, I just, they were, there was a... It, they're just, to think that all those parts and all those things produce something that when you turn it on- There is something about the American spirit- ... it send butterflies in your stomach ... that people love, are obsessed with.

40:23Yeah. Or the t- There's horses and cars. Yeah. Or the ting of a... Yeah, I'm not a horse guy- Yeah ... really, but you know, but the, the ting of a Ferrari or the sound of a McLaren turning on or the, you know, the rumble you get underneath your, you know, your rear when you're going down the street in a 911 or whatever it may be. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Those, those are... And I think they're very individual,'cause some people, if I was in the passenger seat, I would hate it. Yeah. How did Steve feel about five days in the passenger seat- He, he, he- ... or 10 days? You know what? Credit to Steve, Steve... And, and on this one, he actually drove more than I let my brother drive on the first one- Oh, wow. Okay ... rightfully so. But, uh, now we got another one coming up next year that we're really excited about. Uh- Incredible ... and, uh, we'll do it again in some American muscle and have some fun with it. Hell yeah. Well, I appreciate you making time today. Thank you. This was a lot of fun. Uh, this is the Rebels podcast, uh, conversations with my favorite disruptors, rebels, uh, rule breakers, and, uh, I'm glad that we, uh, made some time. Thanks. Thanks for coming on.

41:23See you at Craig's. See you at Craig's. Immediately.